Why would a good GOD create Evil? (Video)

Free Thankers Go Home!

The question of evil has stumped Christians for years. This video I think does a good job answering the objection. What do you think?

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    • Jimmy
    • May 9th, 2008

    If this is the case why doesnt he just say so. or would that just be too much trouble on his part.

    • Jake
    • May 16th, 2008

    Very powerful argument to this criticism. I’ve heard of the free will part but the absence of good concept is new to me. But I can still point out some criticisms to either of these.

    1. Why would god ALLOW the absence of good. He must have known it was going to happen, if he didn’t, that would mean he would not omniscient (all knowing). He must have had the ability to create where it could have been, or else he would not be omnipotent (all powerful). And he must have chosen to create good wherever it can be created, or else he could not be benevolent. Wait what? Somethings missing here. Obviously there is the absence of good. So he must have either known about it, or not been able to create good where it could have been created, or he is not all good. It is impossible to be omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent AND to have the absence of good.

    2.

    a. Your assuming that to have free will we must have the ability to cause evil. I do not have the ability to lick my elbow, does this mean I have no free will? I think not. I think its very possible to have free will and not have the ability to cause evil. You and I may not be able to conceive of the disability to cause evil, but if god is omnipotent than he must be able to make it happen.

    b. If god knew that those certain individuals would cause evil, why would he allow them to be created. Certainly such god cannot be benevolent permitting the birth of Hitler knowing a holocausts was soon to come. There is many cases of evil done by humans in the world, so why would he allow the creation of evil humans?

    • schooloffish
    • May 16th, 2008

    It is nice to see a comment with some thought behind it. Most are not quite so thought out. However, there are a few issues that need to be addressed.

    “Why would god ALLOW the absence of good. He must have known it was going to happen, if he didn’t, that would mean he would not omniscient (all knowing)”

    Allowing people to act in a non-good way doesn’t mean that he did know about it. Since He is omnipotent, He had to know. The Bible states that GOD allows Evil to exist for a few different reasons. First, through the evil in the world we know true good and second, He can use evil to fulfill his good purposes (such as evil kings who punish the disobedient jews). However, there is a more philosophical point that needs to be addressed. If GOD didn’t allow evil, by what would you be using as a comparison for good?

    Here’s a personal question. Do you believe that people who commit moral crimes should be punished? Is suspect you would answer yes. Have you ever committed a moral crime? Again the question should be yes (unless you are delusional). So, should God not have created you? Or are your’s a my moral crimes ok, because they are just a little evil. God realizes that people born with freewill will act freely and many of these actions will be outside of GOD’s moral will. Because of this, GOD has chosen to allow some evil, because some evil was better than not creating at all. I think we would all agree that living in an evil world is certainly better than to have never been created.

    2. Actually I am not assuming that having freewill means we absolutely have to create evil (call the Is/Ought Fallacy). Freewill allows us to act good and not good and that’s a statement of fact. The fact is most act in a non-good way quite often so even though it may not be that case that we have to act evilly, we do.

    Lastly, though I explained this above, what amount of evil is too much? Clearly Hitler was too much, but what about lying or cheating on a test, or speeding on the freeway? What about talking back to your parents, or shop-lifting, or underage drinking. Should God not have created us because of our evil deeds? Perhaps you can give draw a line int eh sand as to how much evil is ok. You are also assuming that god doesn’t restrain evil. I think he does restrain evil, but lets it lose from time to time show that the world can see the result of Godly people acting in a Godly way. Think about Hitler for a minute. Hitler was a horrible human being, no doubt. However if it wasn’t for Hitler, the world powers would not have acted in a Godly way to liberate the people Jews, which wouldn’t have led to the recreation of Israel. It is possible (risking putting words in GODS mouth) that he used such a horrible man to create a shining light in the middle east. This is just one of the many things that can out of such a terrible situation. So though GOD is not the author of evil, he can still use it to have a good outcome.

    Frankly, I am a Calvinist, so I believe that the sovereignty of GOD is more important than our freewill anyway.

    You can’t lick your elbow? Perhaps you need a longer tongue 🙂

    • Jake
    • May 29th, 2008

    This seems to be the “greater good” approach your taking. I can see that evil can create good, of course it can, but to have the power to do ANYTHING, would he really need to make such a crutch? He’s GOD for christ sake(Pardon the pun), he can do ANYTHING, why such a painful method of choice? I just can’t fathom how such a “benevolent” god would create such chaos. Infants suffocating on umbilical cords, the simple facts that we need to kill to survive, natural disasters, all created by this “benevolent” god. Yes i have caused evil, sure i have. Not to say he shouldnt create anyone who will cause evil, but why create the fact that they will cause evil. Why create the capasity, or the want, to cause evil? Sure i am grateful for living, but why create such destructive creatures such as humans?

    “God realizes that people born with freewill will act freely and many of these actions will be outside of GOD’s moral will.”

    Anything outside of gods will would disprove his omnipotence. god is ALL-POWERFUL

    • MG
    • June 4th, 2008

    That was nice, but it does not agree with scripture.

    Isaiah 45:7
    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    “For the creature [and/or creation itself] was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him [that’s God] Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW” (Rom. 8:20-22)!

    The force of these verses in Rom. 8:20-22 is inescapable. It was God HIMSELF Who subjected the whole creation to vanity, and He didn’t ask anyone’s permission before He did it. And it is only God Himself Who will deliver the whole creation from the bondage of corruption, pain, and suffering. Make no mistake about it: God is the Creator of evil, and He takes full responsibility for the deliverance from the consequences of all the evils that have caused the creation to “groan and travail in PAIN until NOW” as Paul describes. God takes responsibility for the temporary failures of creation so that He can take all the credit and glory for its successes.

    • schooloffish
    • June 5th, 2008

    Interesting. Perhaps some exegesis is in order to see what the passage says. Firs the red flag in the Issiah is the fact that one one version of the Bible (the King James) translates the passage that way. This is itself is not proof of anything, but it does raise a flag as to thee accuracy of the translation. Frankly, the only time I get this objection it is from a King James only advocate, and generally when I point out some of the flaws through exegesis the conversation becomes nasty, I hope this is not a case here.

    I will grant you the fact the “ra’ah”(resh ayin hey) means “Evil”, but it also is accurately translated throughout the scripture as unpleasant, spoiled, hurtful, morally evil, fierce beasts. I assume you are not stating that all location where ra’ah is used it means evil? Certainly, the figs that Jeremiah was looking at were not evil in the sense of morally reprobate (Jer 24:3) yet he used the same word.

    So perhaps the problem is NOT my article but a need for greater study in exegesis. I think a great case can be made that the King James translation incorrectly translated the old testament passage in question incorrectly because the Bible as a whole doesn’t teach that God created evil. In fact, many passages teach exactly the opposite. So either we have a contradiction or your exegesis is simply lacking. The fact is, the King James bible is simply NOT the best translation to use.

    James 1:13 states “Let no one say when he is tempted. ‘I am being tempted by God’; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.” And further “Every good thing bestowed and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation, or shifting shadow.” (emphasis added) We know that God is not a God of confusion (1 Cor 14:33). Psalm 18:30 tells us “As for God, His way is blameless” and “Thou art not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; no evil dwells with Thee (Psalm 5:4). Also, “The Lord is righteous in all His ways, and kind in all His deeds.” (Psalm 145:17)
    [Quoted from comereason.org]

    So what about Rom 8 20:22? It says:

    For the creation was subjected to futility (KJ translates vanity), not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

    Not sure what the problem is with this one. The passage is clearly a reference to the fall of man where God punished humankind for humankind’s EVIL. The passage speaks of God desire for us to be set free from our bondage from evil through the work of the Cross. This is easily seen in the next passages

    And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it. Our Victory in Christ (Rom 8 23-25).

    (BTW, I am a Clavinist, so I have no problem with God overriding my free will with His, so this passage works perfectly within my theology).

    I find it helpful to read the entire passage to get it’s meaning because anything can easily be taken out of context.

    • MG
    • June 6th, 2008

    No nasty conversation here. I don’t know a lot about theology or exegesis. I just know that God started teaching me one day and everything I thought I knew turned out to be false.

    I believe that Isaiah 45:7 speaks the truth and find great comfort knowing that God is sovereign and in control of all. I found it much more difficult believing that God just stood by and watched and didn’t intervene when he has the power to do so. I don’t believe in free will so man having free will could not explain that away.

    I have experienced much evil and suffering in my life and I know that God is good. God is the creator of evil, but God uses evil always for a good and righteous purpose. Men sin when they do evils to others. God never sins.

    Evil is necessary in the development of human character, virtue, and love. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I believe it was God’s plan that we experience good and evil.
    In my life God has used evil to grind the idols of my heart into powder and the grinding continues. Suffering is necessary and evil causes suffering. God didn’t lose control of his creation in the garden.

    1 Peter 4:
    12Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
    13But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

    1 Peter 4
    1Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. 2As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.

    Hebrews 2:
    9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

    • schooloffish
    • June 6th, 2008

    Not everyone has to have a theological background – thank God for that. However, when presenting a charge (a well meaning one I’m sure) that something doesn’t align with scripture, you must be absolutely certain that this is the case. This certainty is celled theology (the study of God). There are few things that concern me however.

    Much of your language seems to point to God giving you personal and private message from scripture. ( God started teaching me one day and everything I thought I knew turned out to be false…. I believe that Isaiah 45:7 speaks the truth and find great comfort knowing that God is sovereign and in control of all.) I may be wrong on this point, and if I am I apologize. If however I am correct, then I should be worried because this is nothing more the relativism. God’s word is objective, and his teaching is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. It rings true in the same way for everyone (in the same circumstance). God teaches us His moral will through His word and he shows us is sovereign will (occasionally) through supernatural actions.

    You mentioned that you don’t believe in freewill. Are you saying that God takes control of every situation all of the time? I prefer to use the word free agency because an agent works for a sovereign (generally a client or customer) the agent has freedom to act within limits given from the sovereign. The sovereign can cutoff the agent at anytime. This is, most definitely, how God operates. You see it all the time in the Bible. People are free to act, the screw up and God cuts them off. In fact this is a central message of the Bible up until the time we receive a “contract” for salvation through Jesus Christ. So I am not sure how you can justify no freewill at all. It seems to me that God allows you freedom to act within limits. I also don’t see how people can justify libertarian freewill as this takes away the sovereign power of GOD (though I see why libertarian freewill is attractive).

    In any case, the best advice I ever receive is “never read a Bible verse”. Reading a Bible verse allows you to take things out of context, and this leave the message up to the interpretation for the reader. God did not intent this otherwise He’s be a relativist.

    • MG
    • June 6th, 2008

    Here is an article on the topic.

    http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html

    Please remove the link if it’s not appropriate.

    I was looking for an image on google and stumbled onto your article here. I will bow out gracefully now.

    Thank you for your time.

    • joyful1
    • June 8th, 2008

    Hi Schooloffish!
    I have a two-part question…

    You said:
    “The fact is, the King James bible is simply NOT the best translation to use.”

    Which translation do believe best interprets Isaiah 45:7 and more importantly; why? If I may ask.

    Thanks! 🙂

    • schooloffish
    • June 9th, 2008

    Good question. The best translation is the original Hebrew, but since most don’t speak Hebrew (Including your’s truly), you must look at an passage (and most certainly those that seem to contradict other passage) in light of the context in which they were written. Since we know that the Bible teaches that God is not the author of evil, we must conclude that the KJ translation of the word evil (Rah) is not the most accurate one. Add this that virtually every ancient and modern translation uses something other than evil here, one must assume that perhaps it’s the KJ and not every other scholar that is incorrect. I use the NASB for literal translations, and the NIV as a good paraphrase (putting it into modern words.) Don’t misunderstand, if all you have is the KJ version of the Bible, you still have a very accurate picture of the original (99.9% accurate), but when exegesis is what you are after (not just Bible study) it is important to take many factors into account. Here’s how I study difficult passage.

    1. What does the original language say? There are plenty of online tools to help with this
    2. Does the interpretation contradict scripture?
    3. What did the early church say about the issue?
    4. What does the entire paragraph/book say? It is easy to read things out of context if you only look at the verse, so read the entire paragraph at least, if not the entire book.
    5. Who is God speaking to? Often the passage in question is a promise to an individual or group (like Israel) and is not a passage for us to hold on to (I don’t believe this to be the case with Isaiah 45:7 as it speaks of the nature of GOD).
    6. What do people smarter than myself have to say about it? (pastor, teacher, mature Christian, etc.)

    Let me say one again, I do not think the KJ Bible is a poor translation, however there are many people that believe the the KJ version is the only inspired version of the Bible, and this is simple false. All are great translation, but all have limitations, so it is best to use a more robust study method than just one Bible.

    • joyful1
    • June 10th, 2008

    thanks.
    joyful1

    • Loren
    • July 8th, 2010

    God (or the Godhead) is not the author of evil. Lucifer is, as he transformed himself into Satan, and caused 1/3 of the original Creation to rebel against God .. and fall.

    This fallen 1/3 attempted to raise itself above the unfallen 2/3’rds, which is why God had to subject the fallen 1/3 unto vanity.

    Lucifer’s “darkness” was originally of/from God’s first-given Light, but Lucifer took it to a wrongful conclusion, thereby resulting in rebellion and “war in the heavens”.

    The Six Days of Creation are in reality the Six Days of Restoration of the fallen 1/3 back into a “working order”, not yet a “perfect order”, which doesn’t happen until towards the end of Revelation.

    The Masonic/Illuminati’s “order out of chaos” phrase is not original unto them, but hijacked from what God had to do during the Six Days of Restoration, in drawing/formulating His “order” out of Lucifer/Satan’s “chaos” (the fallen 1/3).

    The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was now necessary to place in the Garden, for as God had to make His decision as
    per His Light vs Satan’s darkness, so too would Mankind through Adam and Eve.

    The dilemma of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is that “good” can be derived from its fruit (which is why we live in such a dichotomous split-personality world – Lucifer/Satan being the original “split personality”).

    Satan, as the “god of this world”, can “bless” whomever he so chooses, including the very Elect of God! So, not all that is “good” is from God.

    Do not trust in signs and wonders and miracles and “good”, but in the “fruit”.

    Had Adam and Eve partaken of the fruit from the Tree of Life, Mankind would not have been in all this mess all these thousands of years. And Satan would have been “dealt with” right then and there in the Garden.

    Nevertheless, Satan and his minions will be dealt with in a future Final Judgment!

    God does not need evil to prove His Good; nor darkness to prove His Light; nor lack to prove His Abundance; nor hatred to prove His Love; nor lawlessness to prove His Law, etc, etc.

    Yet, in our imperfect, sin-ridden world of existence, He will work His will through such negative satanic aspects, in order to bring about His Goodness in our lives – that we should have had from the beginning, had Adam and Eve NOT partaken from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, but had chosen from the Tree of Life.

    Praise God! We can now partake of the Tree of Life, by partaking of Jesus Christ! By doing so, God’s original covenant of Original Destiny with Mankind is re-established and re-energized!

    Creation is literally waiting … for YOU!

    Partake of the Tree of Life TODAY!

      • schooloffish
      • July 8th, 2010

      You are all over the place here, and though I agree with most of what you are saying (especially your ability to contextualize the gospel from the fall of man through redemption), I am a tad uncomfortable with the line “Satan, as the “god of this world”, can “bless” whomever he so chooses, including the very Elect of God! So, not all that is “good” is from God.” Perhaps it’s a definition thing, but Satan is by definition pure evil and God is by definition is pure goodness, so everything that is truly good is from GOD. The issue is our ability to recognize true goodness. What looks good on the surface may not be from God thus it isn’t really good. The method by which we determine goodness is through the fruit it produces. However, I wouldn’t necessarily state that fruit is entirely from God either. Certainly there are many atheists that produce fruit that rivals that of the Christians (sometimes more). Mormons are very “fruitful” people, yet they are separated from the true God. So how does one truly measure true goodness? Simply Jesus is the example of true human goodness. Additionally, I would certainly state that Satan can bless people (in a worldly way), but would not say he has free choice in this matter. By giving Satan free choice, you make Satan equal with God. God is sovereign and Satan is completely dependent on God allowing him to conduct business here on earth. Why? How do we reconcile a sovereign, all knowing, all loving God with His ability to allow Satan to reign on Earth? I believe it’s because God uses evil as a means by which He is glorified. So though you might believe that He does doesn’t need contrasts to make himself known, it seems to me that this answer best explains the situation that we are dealing with at this moment. Could God have done it differently? Certainly, but the question is not could he have, but did he? Theology matters here, and as Christians we must reconcile the existence of Satan as pure evil with God’s attributes of being, all knowing, powerful, and loving.

    • Loren
    • July 8th, 2010

    Lucifer/Satan is the original “split personality”, or “Dr. Jekyll / Mr. Hyde”, due to his rebellion against God. His “persona” is embedded within the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

    If he were truly “pure evil”, then the “Tree” would have been the “Tree of Knowledge of Evil”. Had that been the case, Eve never would have partaken of that Tree’s fruit. But the “fruit”, being from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, had “goodness” to it, that concealed the “evil” within.

    In partaking of this “fruit”, Adam and Eve condemned the entire human race ever since unto the effects of “good and evil” – but this “good” is not of God’s Goodness (which would have been through the Tree of Life), but of Lucifer/Satan’s, since within the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is embedded the dualistic, split-personality of Lucifer (good) and Satan (evil) – two sides of the same coin, two personas of the same “being”.

    When God created Lucifer, Lucifer was complete and whole and “perfect” (Ezekiel 28:12). Lucifer, through the Godly maturation process, became the “mirror reflection” of the Godhead unto the rest of Creation.

    God did not create a hidden flaw within Lucifer, pre-knowing, based upon that hidden flaw, that Lucifer would transform himself into Satan.

    Lucifer created Satan, basically, by “leaning upon his own understanding”, rather than continuing in the Faith that he had been created with and had matured in.

    (The core reason Lucifer rebelled is because he did not want to submit himself, and all that was under his authority and dominion, which was considerable, unto the newest and latest and in God’s EXACT “image and likeness” presented creation-to-be : MANKIND!)

    If Lucifer/Satan were “pure evil”, he would not be able to appear as an “angel of light”. Even after he rebelled and led the “war in the heavens” against the Godhead, he still retained the majority of his original God-created/embedded Light.

    In fact, at that point in time, if Lucifer/Satan’s light were placed side-by-side with God’s Light, the “undiscerning eye” would not be able to tell the difference!

    Indeed, Lucifer/Satan detests the fact that, as much as he desires to rebel against, and usurp, the Light, Love, and Law of God and rid himself of such, even within himself, yet ..

    even his very existence to this day is dependent upon God’s Light, Love, and Law! – that which he detests and hates with a rageful passion.

    If he were to totally rid himself of God’s Light, Love, and Law within, he would cease to be. Lucifer/Satan may have a split-personality, but he isn’t suicidal! So ..

    he has worked, and is working, behind the scenes, through Mankind’s “science and technology”, to find a way, a means, a method, whereby he can rid himself of the last remnants of “God” within him, yet remain fully “alive” – wholly independent of the Light, Love, and Law of God.

    “.. I bring forth a fire from the middle of you, it shall devour you, and I will bring you to ashes on the earth ..” Ezekiel 28:18

    In the above verse, God has pronounced judgment against Lucifer, eventually rendering him “to ashes on the earth”.

    But, in defiance to this Godly judgment, Lucifer has vowed to “rise from the ashes”!

    The above verse is the SOURCE of the “Phoenix”!!!

    Today’s cutting-edge science and technology is being driven by Lucifer/Satan’s desire to fully become the Phoenix, and to liberate his key comrades held in inter-dimensional prisons, and to re-wage his ancient war against the Godhead ..

    only this time, “reborn” as “the Phoenix” – wholly independent of the Light, Love, and Law of God, both without and within!

    But, he will fail!

    Because .. God has some “secret weapons” (in the form of Sacred Words not yet spoken) at His disposal, that were never made known to Lucifer, even while during his time in being the “mirror reflection” of the Godhead (prior to his rebellion).

    So, for all those who are involved in “the occult”, even within the Synagog of Satan, with all the chants, spells, conjurings, and etc – it will all be as NOTHING – rendered unto “none effect” – when God unleashes His never-before-spoken-forth Sacred Words of Life and of Creation!

    PRAISE GOD !!!

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